Regarding Patreon and the future of this show’s scheduling

It’s likely no secret we are in a bit of a rut here at MMO Grinder. Both my co-writer and I have had a harder time keeping a balance of interesting games to look at while keeping up with a pace that lets us really work on playing these games with the community we’ve worked so hard to form. Summer is more or less here depending on if you’re one of those people who thinks it starts on Memorial Day as opposed to June 21st. People are out of school, but they’re also taking advantage of this weather, and the MMO Market itself has been in a bit of a rut, with the biggest news going to titles that were all the rage last year being converted into Buy-to-Play or Free-to-Play titles. There’s not much to work with there, regarding the main show, as most new and anticipated MMO games are either trapped in betas, or so far down the horizon there’s no point in holding out for them.

I’ve also not spoken of Patreon too much on this site, and mostly because I don’t want people to think it’s a requirement to enjoying this show, or community. There’s already too many people who think playing the games along with us is a paid-only exclusive perk (Maybe I should go about changing the wording on those.) You don’t need to be a Patron to make a suggestion, just to make one “official.” You don’t need to be a Patron to play along with us and give feedback, only to have access to the official script and writing process. I have no desire to hold my videos “hostage” (by offering an early-access tier) so all new releases will be availble to the public when ready… but I really should think about having Grindstone screen them before I go live. Scheduling is just too tight.

And there’s the problem I’m having. Scheduling is just way too tight to balance the amount of time a lot of us want to play these games, the time we need to include side content and backtracks that are sorely needed for so many titles, and the time I need to live my actual life.

For a good long time I’ve wanted to step back to only releasing one full Grinder episode per month, giving a lot more time for things like side content, community play days, and of course, streams (as much as I despise streamer culture.) We’ve even been very back and forth on a podcast, to which we’ve still not ironed out the particulars.

Going monthly on a Patreon is always something that irked me. It’s like paying me to exist, and I’ve always preferred having at least something to show for it. If we were to go monthly, I think that would make quite a few more people less wary about putting something down, since they won’t feel like I’m trying to mine videos out of them. (Of course you can set a monthly limit, as many often do.) The dropoff from multiple videos is significant, but still potentially net more per video than just opting for a flat monthly. I would have to adjust some goals, though. Perks levels are just fine.

So with all that in tow, how would you prefer we go forward? June is still slated as a two episode month, and likely I’ll be releasing the next full episode within the week, and the next episode after that near the end of the month, as usual. If episodes were to be released once a month going forward, they would likely be released mid-month to allow for the biggest window for time regarding Patreon (provided I don’t shift to monthly, that is.) Vote on the poll below and offer more detailed opinions and feedback in the comments. You don’t have to be a Patron to vote on this and offer feedback. I wouldn’t have posted it here if that was the case, and scheduling changes would affect everyone who watches with any sense of regularity. I’ll close the poll at the end of June and talk about the decision we’ve made from there.

Granted this could all change come fall/winter again, and if the MMO market picks back up to offer some more interesting titles.


Posted on June 15, 2015, in Episodes and tagged . Bookmark the permalink. 10 Comments.

  1. Summer starts in July & ends in August, if you go by “hottest months” as opposed to what the calendar says, This year there was no spring. Summer started in April.

  2. I talked to Dreskar a bit after reading this post to get a bit of a better opinion on the matter since I’m still new around mmogrinder and he is pretty much the cause of me knowing about you guys.

    Having browsed through the content on your channel a bit and watched some more videos I’ve come to find that while I like your mmo reviews, as much as I like them I’ve found your sidetracks and whatnot just as entertaining.

    Personally, I feel like if you can get by with just the one review a month, at least till you can get some more backers or till the dry season expires then you should do so if it’s what you’d prefer doing. I personally would rather see you be able to put out more content on things you enjoy rather than being tied to the main review too much. Not to say that you don’t like doing mmo reviews but having to spit out more content that you’d be able to do in a comfortable pace.

  3. I’ll 100% admit some of the different options with the Patreon confuse me, and not they you’re confusing me just the options themselves, I’m still getting more versed in what all the terms and types are.

    I would be completely fine you going to 1 full vid a month. It makes sense since less people are online, at least in the US. Yes, schools are out but that also means time away from computers, or at least, long hours on games.

    I’d also be fine with Patreon sponsors to be able to preview the vid before it airs to give you more time for feed back and adjustments.

    I’ve never felt you “kept” anything from those of us who don’t pay so there’s no worry on that here, at least on my end.

    I enjoy the side quests and the backtracks as much as the full eps so if it’s easier in this slower time to produce those with 1 full vid per month, I’m all for it.

  4. IamAWAYSright

    Best business advice to you ever: STOP MMORPG reviews. You are not cut out for it. It is not your thing. It is like a fat man giving people jogging advice because he owns a pair of shoes (and the advice is off). You personality is unique take on reviewing and the criticism and monotone (except when YOU live stream then you scream your pooping out a spiked egg) style helps set the critic note in. BUT… everything you critic you do not like. You do not like chat or communitites that are dedicated to your behavior. If they role play too much you get freaked out, if they idle chit chat or do not help, you call them trolls. If they troll (which is an amazing reason to EVEN PLAY mmorpgs…as you pass barren terrain on your mount, starting a “Allah is god” debate is the best thing to do to burn time… so if they troll you call them toxic and hate everything about it. Sp what do you want? Monotone people giving game faqs on demand? OR be like you when you live stream and yell Fµµµµ at nothing every 5 seconds?

    Then game design, if it is not sraight out box cutter ugly and pretends to be so different it is bad (coug cough Secret world cough); you do not like it… Games, look at the entire history you just posted of games you vote as “3YES” should play…that is after you tear it down to being the most unenjoyable thing since dry hand jobs. “But it could be worse, so try it”. You are OUT OF TOUCH with the mmorpg community, and what people want and how they get their feels in a game.

    I applaud your tactic to not catter to marketing “revolutionary combat” stuff and generally speak your mind on things. Although alaways a little to heavy on the people than the actual company. WOuld be nice to see a change.

    And that change my friend, is stop mmorpgs. You are cut out MADE for a single player critic. Because there, your linear monotone harsh ciritics are more tailored and applicable! There are things that can not be ignored (like in mmorpgs, we can turn off chat), so desrve more of a critic hammer in single player. You have no community to other you. YOu have designs that are out right blantant exploit, faboied out, or creative…And we need more people to point us to the good titles. It is your calling. This…*waves hand about alll the mmorpgs* is not you. But I get it. It pays the bills….

    PS, when you say “community worked hard to get”…You should not be working hard for that. IT should be the natural result of anyhting you do. I started reviews with just palin truth, in touch feed back, and knowing I am not getting paid. I got over 15K viewers on some of my articles and at least 2K per article on average. Got picked up for a certain site, got paid in (after two years) a litte bit (seriously, not enough to even buy a consol set), and I do not approach it like a business but a hobby. Community flocks. And I do not use pootypie voices, sell out terms, and I have pushed against the tide (calling GW2 out for not being the best thing to kill wow, which banned me 10 times over for posting…While letting their fanbois talk crap all over…that game is still number one on their mmorpg list when filtered by rating lol). But yeah… Gaurantee you change to single player games and Ill even slap my GF and tell her “sex? Not now! Chaos is about to do a single player review”.

    • I think I’ve let you shit post on here for long enough, Nathan Rivadeneyra. You are clearly not a fan. Every single thing you’ve listed are critiques you’ve had lobbied against yourself. Feedback you delete and dismiss as trolling and spam. You project. You want what I have and hate that you don’t have it, so you pretend you actually do, and rally every personal shortcoming you have for yourself as a slight against me. Every single thing you’ve ever accused me of doing is something you have done yourself.

      I let you have your final piece by merging your reply to your own comment, another common practice I’ve seen you do on MMOshite. (You know you’re one of only 3 people I’ve seen who think the phrase “a lot” is spelled “allot”. That’s a different word that means “to give a specific amount”. Don’t go claiming “typo” on me. You do it every single time.) But from this moment on, you are done.

      By the way, I said “community I’ve worked so hard to form”. Learn how quotations marks work. Once you have a strong enough regular viewerbase, you need to work on keeping them. Getting them together. Offering other ways for them to play alongside each other, via forums, chat rooms, engaging them with forums and contests. Understanding that personalities will clash, drama will form, and you, as a leader and figurehead for that community, will be the one everyone will look up to in order to solve the issues. You have to talk to people individually, and as a group. Solve problems. Delegate tasks and work together to form a greater bond. That’s what makes us “Grindstone” and not “a bunch of people who watch MMO Grinder”.
      Getting a community is easy. You can wipe your ass with a sheet of megaman sprites and some people will still call it brilliant. (-Yahtzee) But that’s not a “community”, that’s a following. Not that you will ever know anything about that.

      You have once again done nothing but show you’re incapable of saying your piece without directly attacking people. The whole fucking reason I banned you in the first place. You lobbed a personal insult against MegaGWolf, someone who had absolutely nothing to do with your problems against me or my video, in order to strengthen your flimsy, situational argument. You played the victim card and so, I cut you off. Were you so busy being a frothing psychopath that you didn’t notice, up until that point when everyone was calling for your head, I was offering you content codes for TERA at the time? Go ahead and look. My replies doing so are still there.

      In an effort to keep your delusional trolling channer-reject ass from once again claiming your psychotic stance of my refusal to offer you another place to shitpost, here’s where people can find these “oh so famous” blogs of yours:
      You can’t claim I’m silencing you now. Prepare to have to stand on your own merit… Oh wait, you just delete most comments that make you look like a fool (like the blog hasn’t done enough.)
      The sad part is, I think there’s actual merit to your idea of the “Evolving review”. You understand that an experience can change with time and level, and that’s an approach no one has seemed to take to MMO reviewing. Too bad you’re one of the most deliriously unfocused, personally biased, and binary writers I’ve ever seen. It’d be cool if someone were to steal that formula from you.
      By the way, who’s paying you over there, exactly? I need someone to contact to provide them with a very large list of links and screenshots they might be interested in.

      Thanks for falling into every trap I set for you. Now go the fuck away you crazy, stalker, wannabe /b/tard asshole. No one likes you.

  5. baloneyjustice

    I personally enjoyed your bi-weekly presentation…but i managed to watch all your shows after discovering this channel a few months ago during the winter months and now have been hooked to it. Its something I look forward to any form that comes out in even if I do not always agree with your recommendations or have time to play what you do.. because of your show, I have tried out

    hawken, (like to play it more.. but never in the mode to play it, I blame a long standing addiction to ‘robocraft’ for this..)
    warframe, (same as above)
    world of tanks, (got sick of it fast.)
    the epic quest for mighty loot, (got sick of it moderately slower than WoTS)
    spiral knights, (got sick of it as fast as WoTS)
    Global Agenda, (got sick of it in one night..uninstalled it in the very same night it was installed in. Ugly looking ghost town games mostly filled with NPCs with nasty looking greasy mustaches creep me out, and every NPC in that game seem to be wearing handle bars on there face.. Maybe if it looked better or had more people playing it I might of given it more time..but the 8 hours I gave it was generous enough considering I can still remember most of the NPCs had mustaches and/or weird looking facial hair styled like a 70s porn shoot.. Uch,,,,)
    hearthstone (still loving it despite a lack of legendary cards. It just that good of a game)
    Heros of the Storm (I might stick with which i think is surprisingly enough for me)

    Now there is other games on this list I tried maybe before I saw your review.. but not included… but I generally like your reviews because you find what think is important about a game and talk about it.. Even if I don’t feel like trying out a particular game.. having you go in say whats its like to play it… can be enough at times to say.. Ok.. so now I know and let me happily fulfill all curiousity I might have for the game..

    This is really why i like to watch your show.. you let me vicariously live out playing titles I might not have time for, and if you did play a title I tried.. your review let’s debate if I had the same experience with the game as you did. I personally like it more when you indepth review a game I am also playing but will more likely try a game that’s on your side quest.. If the two were mixed around I might be less likely to try out a game if you do an in depth review of it and present enough information to make me feel like i know almost everything about how I will play the game, and some negative comes up that makes me feel like I could skip out on the title..

    Being over 30… I generally look for any good reason to skip out on a title… I got more then enough games to play and much rather just fill curiosity while I still have it.. so any reason to not play because a good reason not too.. unless its the community is full of asshats.. I also am a bit of a asshatm, so i can’t also be a hypocrite and say I will not play a game because that would be one more asshole in chat…. Its probably for the better if all the asshole gathered to few games and left everything else alone..

    But funny enough, I not played neverwinter.. go figure..

  6. Well, the whole idea behind patreon is that content creators get money for the creating of content. I have also always had a deep distaste for monthly subs…which gradually built into a dislike of anything monthly(thank you bill payments), so I definitely prefer per-video.

    • I agree with this. Not that I want that to influence anyone’s decision, but I agree wholeheartedly. Sidequests can be completed in a day. Backtracks take a bit more work in everything but editing, and I don’t want to fall into a rut of “well, I’m getting paid anyway, might as well do something easy.” It will make sure I at least put out one of the videos people really want me to do.

      • baloneyjustice

        I really like sidequests… and some of my favorite games to date I tried because they were sidequests.. If I try a game you recommend it’s normally because of a sidequest..

    • Monthly patreons make more sense for something like webcomics where you’re getting something small very frequently. Not quite the case for MMO Grinder, but I wouldn’t have a problem with either approach. If anything I’d rather go monthly so that John gets something if he can’t put out a video that month due to circumstances beyond his control (e.g. getting sick or his computer breaking or some such).

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